Athens, 27 March 2008
Mr. S. Liarellis: Hello, Mr. Koumoutsakos.
Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: Hello, Mr. Liarellis.
Mr. S. Liarellis: Article 1: “Mr. Nimetz is mocking us.” I am addressing a diplomat who is the Foreign Ministry’s spokesman and this is not the most elegant of ways.
Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: Mr. Liarellis, Mr. Nimetz tabled one more proposal within the framework of a process that has been going on for years. Greece took a position on it; a timely and clear position. We said that this position is not propicious for a mutually acceptable solution. We said that is some distance from satisfying Greece’s priorities and objectives. We said that Ambassador Mr. Vasilakis was given yesterday detailed instructions to brief Mr. Nimetz on a long list of points in his proposal that, in our view, need changes, additions, and clarifications. All this shows what Greece’s stance is vis-a-vis this proposal.
Mr. S. Liarellis: Let me ask you something, Mr. Koumoutsakos. Is this proposal a basis for discussion?
Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: But I already told you, there are…
Mr. S. Liarellis: So to use a common expression: “for general repair and to the dump.”
Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: It is an expression that most people understand.
Mr. S. Liarellis: Because we have to make it clear…
Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: Allow me to quote an expression used by the Prime Minister today.
Mr. S. Liarellis: Of course.
Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: A false solution is no solution at all.
Mr. S. Liarellis: I noticed that but unfortunately I was listening to the Prime Minister in my car and could keep any notes, this requires some analysis. I mean the term “false solution” and also…
Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: And let me add something that the Foreign Minister went on to say: Greece wants to resolve this issue, not close it anyhow.
Mr. S. Liarellis: That is also true. Let’s try to understand what all this means. Because the Prime Minister also said something that is clear; that we are not interested in a qualification of the neighbouring country’s state of government.
Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: This is a well-known position, it was publicly stated a month or so ago...
Mr. S. Liarellis: But there is one question.
Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: Something like that would not be a clear qualification. It is not a substantially compound solution that makes the mark.
Mr. S. Liarellis: Mr. Koumoutsakos, one of our listeners asks what this means. Are we not interested in…
Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: Look, whether our neighbouring country is a constitutional republic, a constitutional monarchy, or a people's republic, is none of our business. Because the problem lies in whether the name can serve as a means of support and as a tool for historically groundless mindsets. As a means of support and a basis for a historically groundless propaganda that, in any event, does not belong to the present. It belongs to the Balkans’ dark past.
a past that reminds us of the 19th, beginning of the 20th century; a past that I believe everyone, all the region's states, want to be freed of. We want the Balkans to enter a new era; an era of stability; an era of hope; an era of progress.
Mr. S. Liarellis: So that our listeners can understand, adjectives must refer to the word "Macedonia”.
Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: A political qualification is of no interest to us. We are interested in different things.
Mr. S. Liarellis: Good. Let’s move on to something else, Mr. Koumoutsakos. Do we still insist on one name and not a double name?
Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: But again today, our position is clear, it is crystal clear. The Prime Minister's statements do not need any clarifications. He has made all this crystal clear. We are therefore talking about a solution: i) that is clear, i.e., that there are no doubts or ambiguities. Such a solution will have to be valid for everyone.
Things are so clear, that by interpreting them, one can only weaken them. There is no need for unnecessary interpretations and clarifications.
Mr. S. Liarellis: No, no, I am asking you because it would be more understandable if he had repeated what he told the Parliament 20 days ago, i.e., one name.
Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: This is what we are talking about.
Mr. S. Liarellis: Second point. Given your experience, since you have been dealing with this issue for many years, do you think that there might be any new developments come Wednesday? That is, could negotiations resume?
Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: Negotiations have not been interrupted. They continue. But I would like to remind you that the Minister made a statement on Tuesday afternoon, i.e., that the time left until the NATO summit will be marginally enough to reach a mutually acceptable solution. Since then, two days have passed. The most important thing is that Greece has made its position clear months ago in an honest and sincere manner. When we took the courageous, major step to speak first about a compound name, the other side either thought we were bluffing or put our policy down to supposedly domestic reasons, etc.
Since then, we have been getting messages of intransigence and immovable positions from Skopje for months.
Precious time was thus lost; Time that, if used, could have led in time to substantial negotiations, and to a successful outcome today. This precious time was not lost because of Greece. The responsibility lies elsewhere. From the outset, Greece had both clear positions and sincere intentions.
Mr. S. Liarellis: OK, but let’s see what lies ahead. Ms. Bakoyannis will meet with her counterpart. Is that correct?
Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: They will both be at the upcoming informal meeting of EU Foreign Ministers. A meeting will be held on the sidelines of the Meeting’s proceedings with Foreign Ministers from Western Balkan countries. So I can say that Ms. Bakoyannis and Mr. Milososki will be in the same room. But I don’t know right now, it has not been determined thus far, whether they will have a one-to-one meeting.
Mr. S. Liarellis: Right.
Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: I am not ruling it out. But at the moment, no such meeting has been scheduled.
Mr. S. Liarellis: Do you thing that today, Thursday, given the current state-of-affairs and Greece’s firm refusal to accept the framework…
Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: Excuse me, it is not a refusal. We should not say that. Greece’s firm stance is for a solution to be found that will give a true perspective of stability to the region; it is not a refusal. It is the other side that is negative.
Mr. S. Liarellis: Let’s not call it refusal. But let’s move to a substantial matter. Do you think that an agreement approved by the UN Security Council can be reached by Wednesday, so as not to exercise our right to veto on Wednesday?
Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: We said earlier that there is a narrow margin for that.
Mr. S. Liarellis: Yes, but there is still room.
Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: There is some room; but marginal. The sand in the sandglass is at a low level and continues to fall. This is the reality.
Mr. S. Liarellis: Once we veto , if we veto, next week, there isn’t…
Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: Have no doubt about that. Your wording has a hypothetical tone. If there is no solution, there will be no invitation. These things are clear, clarified. Here, I would say I have a complaint to make. It cannot be that our partners and allies abroad consider it a given fact, whereas here in Greece we doubt even our own position.
Mr. S. Liarellis: No, no, I consider it a given fact. I used a conditional with reference to reaching an agreement, whether, following the 4th April, this dialogue could remain alive or whether the wounds will be such that there will be a year with no dialogue at all.
Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: Listen, Greece has already stated, the Minister said it today too, that we have had a constructive stance within the framework of the negotiations, and we will have such a constructive stance both in the days leading to the Bucharest Summit and following the summit. Beyond that, it is the other side’s problem whether it will assume the heavy responsibility and the cost of walking out of these negotiations. Greece is in it because we want to resolve this issue. And we want to resolve it in a viable, functional, and practical manner.
I would like to hope and believe that they will not do that. In any event, it is their own affair. But they will have to assume the cost of such a decision. Greece will, in any event, be there, in the negotiations and in the dialogue, because we believe that the issue must be resolved.
Mr. S. Liarellis: Mr. Koumoutsakos, thank you very much.
Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: Thank you.