Athens , 26 March 2007

Journalist: FM Ms. Bakoyannis’ just concluded her meeting with Prime Minister Karamanlis, in which she briefed him on the results of her visit to the United States.

We are on the phone with Mr. George Koumoutsakos, the Foreign Ministry spokesman. Mr. Koumoutsakos, good day. Tell us, are you satisfied with the results of the Foreign Minister’s meeting? I am saying this because I imagine that, this morning, you looked at today’s papers and realized that there is political disagreement on whether this trip was successful or not.

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: Let us begin by saying what the purpose of this trip was and what happened over the past three days.

Journalist: What did we want, what did we expect?

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: These three days were days of meetings and discussions, in New York and Washington, completely dedicated to the promotion of Greece’s positions and concerns on issues that are of particular interest to us. This was the trip’s objective. This is what happened and I assure you that it was done in the best possible manner. This is also evident from the way in which Greek positions were received: with particular interest and attention, but also with response.

Journalist: The Minister’s agenda included Greek-Turkish issues, the Cyprus issue, the FYROM issue, visas and Kosovo.

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: That is correct. I repeat that this 3-day visit was aimed at promoting Greece’s positions on all these issues.

Journalist: Looking at today’s papers, it is evident that the issue that still causes reactions and disagreements is precisely this, Mr. Burns’ statement regarding Agios Efstratios, i.e., that it is a Greek island…

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: Let me make something clear here. Mr. Burns’ statement contains two elements: the first is that the island belongs to Greece, and on this no one expects to see ‘certificates of Greek ownership’. The second element of this statement – that was either not noticed or noticed but then ignored – was that there was a clear American position that the island is not a demilitarized area. Let me remind you here that the basic argument on the part of Turkey with regard to the recent incident that led to the postponement of a NATO exercise was precisely that Agios Efstratios is allegedly a demilitarized area. Mr. Burns’ statement is therefore of particular importance.

Journalist: So Mr. Burns said that Agios Efstratios is a Greek island and that it is not a demilitarized zone. Yesterday, Mr. Papandreou, who was in Agios Efstratios, essentially asked: What is Mr. Burns’ saying? He is more or less stating the obvious. Of course Agios Efstratios is a Greek island.

Mr. Koumoutsakos, the rumour in journalistic circles is that Foreign Minister Ms. Bakoyannis is saying only half the truth, she is hiding things, in the sense that the Burns statement does not reflect Washington’s policy, as the official stance was given a few days ago by the State Department spokesman, who said that this is a NATO issue.

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: Let’s make certain things clear. The US, as you know, has been refraining from taking a stance for years now, when issues between Greece and Turkey are raised. There have, in fact, been criticisms reported by the press, asking “until when will the US play Pontius Pilate?”

So we have Mr. Burns’ statement and the reaction to that was that he was “stating the obvious”.

This stance, i.e., trying to downplay the importance of that statement, raises questions.

Let me tell you something very simple: if this statement was really obvious and evident, would it have caused such a stir in the media or other circles? Would all those who have spoken about this have spent so much of their precious time if it was indeed something that obvious and that evident?

But even if someone – going beyond common sense – accepted all the arguments about allegedly “stating the obvious”, I would like to remind them that when Turkey attempts to call something into question, it attempts to call into question things that are obvious. So such a confirmation by an international player with the influence of the United States is both important and useful, unless we choose to delude ourselves.

Turkey talked about demilitarisation and so on. This is of concern to NATO, given that it was combined with an exercise, I would say that it is a technical issue.

It is obvious that the US carries particular weight within NATO. Therefore, Mr. Burns’ statement is of self-evident and particular importance. It cannot be ignored – nor can it be diminished by a belated groundless criticism.

Journalist: You know that, in essence, the criticism is that Turkey may well call this into question, but are we discussing this abroad as well?

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: Not at all – there was no such intention. As I told you, the efforts made and this trip’s aim was to present Greek positions clearly and explicitly. I would therefore say that the visible result was this clear statement by Mr. Burns – but there might be other results too, that are not made public, as is usual with confidential diplomatic discussions. This statement, “breaks with” a practice, if you wish, that has been followed for years on the part of the US, i.e., to refrain from taking such positions.

I believe that we should not shoot ourselves in the foot, carried away by an excessive self-critical mood. Because, at the end of the day, this is what we are doing when we diminish the significance of a statement by our own criticisms.

Journalist: This is your position, the position on the Ministry with regard to the Agios Efstratios issue. It is clear.

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: I feel that this position follows and is in accordance with common sense.

Journalist: Ms. Bakoyannis also discussed the issue of Skopje. What news do we have on that Mr. Koumoutsakos?

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: We have a very clear position. This was repeated by the Foreign Minister. Greece has shown a constructive stance within the framework of the UN process. We have a strategy that we believe can lead to a mutually acceptable solution. This is what we repeated.

At the same time, we stressed that during the past few months, actions and statements by the new government in Skopje are creating a counterproductive climate. In any event, we pointed out that these positions are sometimes within the limits or sometimes beyond the limits of the interim agreement of 1995. We are bound to take these into account, particularly given Skopje’s ambitions to accede to NATO and the European Union.

We cannot ignore nor undermine the importance of recent statements and actions and provocations by Skopje.

Journalist: Seizing the opportunity of having you with us on the phone, I would like to ask something on another issue, the much-discussed visa issue. There was an expectation that Ms. Bakoyannis’ visit would bring a given result, I am referring to the visa waiver…

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: … for Greek citizens.

Journalist: Greece is the only country out of the 15 in Europe. What news do we have on that?

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: You mean the old member states.

Journalist: Yes, that’s why I said 15.

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: And this is a basic argument. Because you said, however, that we might expect to come back from the US having solved this issue, I would like to stress the at no time was there an official and public statement on the part of the Foreign Ministry that the issue would be resolved during this visit. And this is for a very clear reason. It is an extremely complicated issue, It is not just an issue of the American government taking a decision. The Congress also plays an important role in this whole issue.

Journalist: What exactly do they want? Because we as a country issued new passports with a safety barcode, etc., what else?

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: This is the core of our arguments and I have to say that at the level of the US administration, and in any case the State Department, these arguments were well received. What I can say at this stage is that at least this part of the US government will transmit the messages to Congress and all other Departments, such as the Homeland Security Department and the Justice Department, etc., that will be messages to support our objectives.

Journalist: At some point, visas for Greeks must be waived – Greece is no longer a country that…

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: Yes, because we form part of the Schengen area. We have very secure passports now. We also have significant know-how – that has been recognised by the US, as well – in matters of security through the organisation of the Olympic Games.

These are three very strong elements in our diplomatic arsenal and our arguments. My impression is that – and it is an impression based on what I saw and what I heard – that the messages to be sent by the State Department and the rest of the administration, but also to the congress, will be positive. At the same time, I have to stress, however, that this process is extremely complicated.

Journalist: We know that. Thank you very much.

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: Thank you for what was in my view a useful discussion.