Athens, 18 June 2008
Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: Good morning ladies and gentlemen. Foreign Minister Ms. Dora Bakoyannis will make a short introductory statement, and the Q&A session will follow. Madam Minister, you have the floor.
Ms. Bakoyannis: Good morning. Our meeting today is in a way the inauguration of the practice of our having meetings of this kind more frequently. Meetings that will provide the opportunity for a general briefing on the progress being made on issues being addressed by our country’s foreign policy.
Two very brief introductory notes: First, there is no doubt that the negative result of the Irish referendum is creating concern. I would add, in fact, that it justifies a certain feeling of uncertainty as to what precisely the future holds for the further course and efforts towards building a democratic, effective – and thus stronger – Europe.
However, it does not justify a lack of will and resolve. We will have to carry out a quick assessment of all of the parameters of the new state of affairs so that we can move ahead with equally quick decisions.
Our objective must be to keep the European Union from relapsing into counterproductive navel-gazing; into inert introversion. In that sense, the first step that must be taken is the continuation of the ratification process by the 8 member states that have yet to ratify the Lisbon Treaty.
The second note: The result of the Irish referendum comes as yet another pending matter added to the more general fluidity that exists at this time; during what I would call a transitional period in our international environs.
The European Union is once again trying to find the stride that will enable it to face the problems and challenges of a particularly competitive globalized international environment more confidently and effectively; problems and challenges that are now being felt directly by European citizens in their day-to-day lives.
At the same time, U.S. presidential elections are just a few months away. And these are elections that – regardless of the result – will bring a change in the U.S. administration, with whatever that might entail vis-à-vis repercussions for U.S. foreign policy.
In the Balkans, how the Kosovo issue will develop – with the new state of affairs created by Kosovo’s unilateral declaration of independence – is of great importance. Kosovo’s independence has been recognized by a number of states in the international community, including the majority of our partners and allies in the EU and NATO. But, as you know, it has not been recognized by four EU member states.
The issue of Serbia’s progress towards its European and Euroatlantic perspective is also very important. Everything that happened and the developments we had before a during the recent election process in FYROM is cause for concern. We are awaiting the formation of a stable and effective government that will abandon an often extremist nationalistic rhetoric.
We will continue to pursue a mutually acceptable solution on the name issue, to the benefit of bilateral relations, regional stability and cooperation; a solution that will benefit our neighbouring country’s European and Euroatlantic aspirations and the region’s stability.
Turkey is looking for a way out of a situation that has been created there by recent developments. At the same time, it is obvious that Turkey’s European perspective needs to be revitalised. This revitalisation can come only from Turkey itself, through substantial decisions to continue its reform efforts.
We are once again at a decisive turning point with the Cyprus issue. The general messages and good atmosphere in the contacts between the two communities justify a certain optimism. But the road to a solution – a just, viable and functional solution based on a bicommunal, bizonal federation – is not strewn with rose petals.
In the Middle East – despite some tentative signs of improvement – the political and diplomatic situation unfortunately continues to waver between suspicion and tension.
So, ladies and gentlemen, we are in the midst of a very fluid time, a transitional period, that doesn’t look like it will end any time soon. It is in this international landscape that Greece will exercise a well-prepared, cautious, multileveled and resolute foreign policy. A policy of principles and realism, combining persistence in its firm strategic choices with any necessary adaptations on a tactical level for approaching given situations.
Our guide is the protection and promotion of Greece’s priorities and interests in a complicated and shifting environment.
That was my introductory statement on the current state of affairs. I also want to talk to you about a draft law being submitted by the Foreign Ministry, the details of which my colleague Mr. Kassimis will go over with you.
Just a few words about a necessary change of an administrative nature, within the framework of the operation of the Foreign Ministry. After 40 years of operation, it has been deemed necessary and imperative that the Foreign Ministry’s translation service be re-established on a modern basis.
Parliament will be presented with a new draft law for the Translation Service. The great increase in the number of languages for translation; a much greater number of users; the huge volume of translation work – which is growing from year to year – due to the EU enlargement and the large number of economic migrants; the wide use of notarized official documents for and from foreign countries; and the development of the new technologies – all of this has resulted in difficulties in the performance of translation work.
The Foreign Ministry’s draft law was based on a study of how things stand in the countries of the European Union and at the UN. It is aimed at reinforcing the work of its translators, providing state-of-the-art tools and quality control for translations, full computerization of the service and the monitoring mechanisms, decentralization through the creation of translation jobs in all of the country’s prefectures, reduction in cost for citizens, faster delivery times, as well as the provision of translation services and know-how for third countries.
Mr. Kassimis will go through all of the details of the new draft law, after our Q&A session.
Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: Please begin the Q&A.
Mr. Kottaridis: Ms. Bakoyannis, given that Skopje has recently stated clearly that for a solution to be found on the name issue, Greece will first have to accept the existence of a Macedonian ethnicity and language, I would like you to reiterate Greece’s position on this. And second, what precisely are we discussing with Skopje in the wake of this?
Ms. Bakoyannis: Our position is clear. We are seeking a mutually acceptable solution on the name issue. I have repeatedly said that these negotiations have one subject and only one subject. We will not be dragged into a discussion that might in the end lead to the negotiations being diverted from their objective.
Mr. Kapoutsis: Madam Minister, is there anything new on the postponed NATO exercise in the Agios Efstratios region.
Ms. Bakoyannis: No, there is nothing new. Whatever the Defense Ministry has announced.
Mr. Kallarytis: Madam Minister, judging from the statements of the Turkish Prime Minister and Foreign Ministry recently and for some time now, it appears that we have initiated a bilateral dialogue with Ankara on the issue of the minority, and, in fact, based on mutuality. Is this the case? Is what the Turks are saying the case? What exactly are we discussing if we are discussing the minority?
Ms. Bakoyannis: First of all, let’s be clear on mutuality. Mutuality vis-à-vis respect for and implementation of policies for the protection of human rights is not an issue today, due to the simple fact that it is the duty of democratic states to respect these rights and implement the relevant policies.
Greece does this with regard to the Muslim minority in Thrace. It is implementing and deepening the policy of equal rights and equality before the law, with respect for the relevant principles and provisions of the Treaty of Lausanne. For its part, Turkey – not due to a rationale of mutuality, interrelations or correlations – is under obligation to do likewise.
It is obliged to do likewise for a further and very basic reason: as a candidate for accession to the EU, it has undertaken the obligation to comply with the principles, criteria and prerequisites, among which an important place is held by respect for religious freedom, and protection of minorities and respect for their rights. A rationale of comparison or correlation on these issues doesn’t hold.
Within this framework, Greece – as a member of the European Union, and also due to its special interest – is raising issues concerning the functioning of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, the Halki Seminary, Istanbul Greeks and their property, Imvros and Tenedos.
These issues are being raised by our side as a very serious parameter for further discussion of Turkey’s European perspective, and not just as bilateral issues. That is the framework, ladies and gentlemen. It is on this basis that we are confronting issues concerning the Muslim minority when Turkey raises them, in accordance with its policy, which we are all aware of.
Mr. Meletis: Madam Minister, I want to ask whether – at the meeting tomorrow and the next day – you will pursue a reference to the effect that resolution of the name issue is a prerequisite for the initiation of accession negotiations with Skopje. That’s one.
And the second: Based on your previous answer, what does it mean that the Foreign Ministry did not appeal the Court of Human Rights decision on the issue of “Turkish” associations in Thrace? Does it mean that we accept the arguments of the Turkish side?
Ms. Bakoyannis: Regarding your second question, your information is erroneous. Following a detailed study carried out at the Foreign Ministry, it was deemed that Greece will appeal the ruling.
As for your first question, the discussion, as you know, at the General Affairs Council was – as your correspondents in Brussels correctly reported – very intense.
The final text of the General Affairs Council is satisfactory. The drawing up and discussion of the text of the European Council conclusions is continuing at this time, and it is Greece’s view that it must be a text whose messages are clear.
Mr. Stavroulakis: Madam Minister, I would like your appraisal of the domestic political situation in Skopje following the elections. To put it a little differently: Can we communicate with Gruevski?
Ms. Bakoyannis: The election process in Skopje was completed – or looks like it was completed – with a re-vote in 187 voting districts in the country. I think there are two or three voting districts left, but nothing of real significance.
So the elections are being completed through a process that is not provided for by FYROM’s election laws. Like the competent international organizations and our partners in the EU, Greece has observed that the election process was marred by violent incidents that often led to flagrant irregularities.
At the same time, however, I don’t think that one can close one’s eyes to the fact of a very specific result; a result that points to VMRO and its head as being powerful factors in FYROM politics.
So we are looking forward to the forming of a stable government; a government, as I said in my opening remarks, that will be in a position to ensure a smooth course for and cohesion in our multiethnic neighbouring country, abandoning nationalistic rhetoric that can only cause problems.
Greece – now, as in the past – will be a responsible neighbour that believes in the need for a stable FYROM and sincerely hopes that the neighbouring country will take the necessary steps for ensuring its European and Euroatlantic perspective.
As you well know, manifest respect for the principle of good neighbourly relations is a fundamental element of this perspective. Needless to say, within this framework a mutually acceptable solution is of course a prerequisite for our working in this direction.
Ms. Adam: I want to ask two things. The first concerns Kosovo. Since the Constitution, most of the countries that have recognized Pristina are going to open embassies. Have the countries that have not recognized Kosovo – among which is Greece – received requests to open a liaison office with Kosovo, and what will you do on that count? That is the first question.
Ms. Bakoyannis: Ms. Adam, we’ve had a liaison office in Kosovo for many years now.
Ms. Adam: Whether it will be in Athens.
Ms. Bakoyannis: The liaison office in Kosovo has existed and been operating for many years now. It will remain as is. For it to be upgraded to an embassy, recognition will be required.
Ms. Adam: So there isn’t …
Ms. Bakoyannis: At this time, there isn’t.
Ms. Adam: A Kosovo liaison office in Athens. That’s what I’m asking.
Ms. Bakoyannis: No, we haven’t received such a request at this time. I thought you were talking about ours.
Ms. Adam: No, no.
Ms. Bakoyannis: We have our office in Pristina. It is a liaison office, as you know, that has been in operation for some time now. We haven’t received any such request for a Kosovo liaison office in Athens. If such a request is made, based on reciprocity we have no problem with accepting it.
Ms. Adam: My second question is broader. Have you perhaps gotten to the bottom of the mystery of how it was possible for invoices of one of your collaborators, Mr. Dragoumanos, to find its way into the personal file of Mr. Christoforakos and remain there – unpaid – for months?
Ms. Bakoyannis: Of course. Ms. Adam, we have provided all the explanations, and as you want to raise the Siemens issue in general with me, I will refer you to an 8 February interview I did with Kathimerini, where I said that the Greek and German justice systems must get to the bottom of the Siemens issue and shed light on it, because it is an issue that in the final analysis concerns the honour and standing of the country’s politicians. And after the whole case has been cleared up, if an investigating committee is required during the summer, an investigating committee should be set up.
Ms. Kourbela: Ms. Bakoyannis, as you discussed the Western Balkans at the latest Council, I wanted to take the opportunity to ask you how HIPERB funding in the region is going.
Ms. Bakoyannis: We are satisfied with the course of HIPERB, which is now moving ahead at a brisk pace. More specifically, in the private investment sector we have approved grants in the amount of €41 million, which is a 38% absorption rate.
In the public investments sector, we have already completed the Greek-Bosnia-Herzegovina friendship building in Sarajevo, while two other major projects are in progress. The upgrading of the Sagiada-Konispol-Sarande corridor in Albania, where the contractor has already been chosen for the SeeLight optic fibre network that will link university communities in Southeast Europe.
And the most important project of all, Pan-European Corridor X, is well on its way, and it is very important that our HIPERB enabled us to mobilise European capital – in addition to Greek capital – to realize the project, as the project is planned to be co-funded by the European Investment Bank, the European Commission. This is a development that guarantees the completion of this project of pivotal importance, which will link Greece with the Western Balkans and Europe.
Mr. Santamouris: Madam Minister, you said earlier that the Europeans must make a quick assessment and take quick decisions about the future of the EU. Rushed decisions necessarily in all probability lead to functional circles in the EU, possibly to concentric circles of member states.
The question is whether the dysfunctions present today are being confronted by a Europe of multiple speeds, and what is, for example, the implementation in the case of a decision of recognition of Kosovo by a Europe of different speeds.
And a second question, if I may. Mr. Ali Ahmeti, the winner among the Albanian parties in Skopje, stated in answer to a question from Eleftherotypia [Athens daily] that the solution to the name issue must be agreed upon and take into account the identities of all of the country’s citizens as well as Greek sensitivities. Do you think that is a satisfactory description of a solution that might be agreed upon? Thank you.
Ms. Bakoyannis: I think it is a satisfactory description because this statement describes a reality. Beyond that, with regard to Europe – look, there are issues that might be the subject of European decisions and issues that cannot be. There cannot be a European decision that will impose recognition of a state on a member state. That is the sovereign right of each member state, so the decision on recognition of Kosovo will be made by the Greek state. That’s one.
Now you are talking about reinforced cooperation. Reinforced cooperation has been implemented in many cases, such as the Eurozone and Schengen, which are two examples of successful reinforced cooperation.
The objective at this time is not to move towards institutionalised circles. No one in the EU is talking about that. The objective is for us to be able to achieve the agreement of the 27. We have experience with this. It is not the first time. If 26 countries ratify by the end of the year, which is a likely scenario at this time – I can’t rule out surprises, but this is one likely scenario – some extra time might be needed to find a solution to the Ireland issue.
I want to repeat what I said in the Hellenic Parliament yesterday, ladies and gentlemen. For Greece, a strong Europe is the most important thing there is in foreign policy. For a long time now, citizens have been taking the benefits of Europe for granted, particularly in countries that have been EU members for a long time.
The problems or, if you prefer, side-effects of globalization that are affecting citizens today can be better confronted by a strong, unified Europe than by each member state on its own. So Greece will remain at the vanguard of countries that will fight for even more Europe, for an even stronger Europe.
Ms. Spanou: I would like to come back to the issue of the invoice that was not paid by Mr. Dragoumanos, and he then had to resign. You said: we have given all the clarifications. But I remember from your interview in the Kathimerini daily that you had not given a specific explanation as to how this particular invoice was found in Mr. Christoforakos’ personal file, who did a particular job, as was later proven, for SIEMENS.
My second question is whether Mr. Dragoumanos had been contacted by Siemens regarding this unpaid invoice these past few months, as would happen with any other normal citizen. Thank you.
Ms. Bakoyannis: I already answered your question. If I had known that, I would have said so. I didn’t know. Mr. Dragoumanos took on the responsibility when the matter was raised. I was very sorry about that. I told him categorically. I paid the invoice. If you ask me about Siemens' internal affairs, I am not in a position to know what happened.
Mr. Milakas: Madame Minister, every European government that dared to bring the European constitution to a referendum got a rejection from its people. What is going on? Are all our peoples blind and our governments enlightened or how can we otherwise explain the peoples’ rejection of the deepening of democracy and the rule of law?
Ms. Bakoyannis: I want to be absolutely clear. It is a very difficult thing to say “yes” or “no” to such a complicated and difficult treaty, like all treaties of the European Union are.
The result is that the people answer on issues that are of great concern to them at a particular moment. The “noes” that might be registered – even among political parties today – have different points of departure.
The “no” on the part of Mr. Alavanos cannot be equated with the "no” of the Irish people, who have a particular sensitivity on the issue of abortions and want abortions to be banned. I don’t think this is the position of ‘Synaspismos’ for example.
And I don’t think the ‘no’ of the Irish people, who are worried that maybe a more social Europe would impose stricter rules on the free market economy and competitiveness, could have anything to do with the ‘no’ of the Greek Communist Party.
What I want to say is that we must draw our conclusions through a more in-depth and accurate analysis of all available data.
It is our view that the Greek people are fully aware of Europe’s importance, its strength and the security it brings to them; our people are one of the staunchest Europhile peoples.
The effort to change the subject of the basic question and to focus – as happened in Ireland – on various individual issues that people are sensitive to or easily upset by – issues that have nothing to do with the Treaty – is a party activity or an activity outside political parties, but unfortunately its effects are detrimental to the people as a whole.
And let me add one thing. Ladies and Gentlemen, when the entire political leadership of Ireland, when all the political parties in Ireland are in favour of the Treaty, do you seriously think that in a democracy, the elected representatives of the people would do something they think goes against their peoples’ interests? I don't think so.
I simply believe that in a yes-or-no logic – that is, the lowest common denominator – simplified answers to complicated questions unfortunately lead to the wrong conclusions.
Mr. Athanassopoulos: Madame Minister, following Athens’ decision not to consent to an accession invitation to Skopje at the Bucharest Summit, a series of events indicate something of a chill in Greek-U.S. relations. I won’t mention them, they are well-known to everyone and also include statements.
Against this backdrop, what do you expect from next Tuesday’s meeting with your U.S. counterpart Ms. Rice, and how concerned are you about this chill, given that the Cyprus issue is opening up again and given that last Friday gave us a first sample of the U.S. stance with regard to the approval of a resolution on renewing the mandate of the UN peacekeeping force in Cyprus? Thank you.
Ms. Bakoyannis: Greek-U.S. relations are good. They are good allied relations based on the historic friendship between two peoples, and at the moment they include multi-level activities in the economic, political, NATO and other fields.
Beyond that, there are issues on which Greece and the United States have different positions. One of these issues is unquestionably the Skopje issue.
We had previously also expressed our strong discontent with the decision of the United States to recognise Skopje under their constitutional name. We support a different view.
Beyond that, I suppose that during the discussion with Ms. Rice – the points of the agenda have yet to be finalized – we will talk sincerely, honestly, and in an unquestionably friendly atmosphere about all the issues of common interest, as is traditionally the case with meetings between Foreign Ministers.
Ms. Fryssa: With regard to Turkey. The competent Commissioner Mr. Olli Rehn said that the AΚP trial will influence Turkey's European perspective. On the other hand, the Slovenian Foreign Minister said that the two issues are not at all connected. What is our position?
Ms. Bakoyannis: Our view is that we hope for developments in Turkey, in favour of European principles and values, i.e., the democratic functioning of the country, and that our neighbouring country will not face a crisis that will trouble its friends and partners within the European Union.
Mr. Gilson: Madame Minister, following your recent trip to Cyprus, can you confirm the rumoured start of direct talks between President Christofias and Mr. Talat, and also a comment on whether you think there will be a direct reference to the Annan plan in the resolution on the renewal of UNFICYP’s mandate.
Ms. Bakoyannis: I don't think that the latest draft on the UNFICYP mentions the Annan plan. I don’t think there is any connection, and this is why the Cypriot side expressed their satisfaction.
As to when negotiations will start between President Christofias and Mr. Talat, this is for President Christofias to decide, I have nothing to say.
Mr. Bogdanovski: From the Russian Press Agency. Madame Minister, on 26 June, an EU-Russia Summit Meeting will be held in Khanty-Mansiysk (Russia) and I would like to ask you what you expect from this Summit, and also your general view on the EU-Russia rapprochement.
Ms. Bakoyannis: Our view is well known, it has been noted on several occasions. Russia is a very important partner for the European Union.
Relations between Russia and the European Union have to be very close. We believe that very important preparations have been made, and countries with reservations, countries which had reservations until now have withdrawn their reservations, and I hope that this Summit will be crowned with complete success.
Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: I see it is now the turn of the international press agencies.
Ms. Flores (Spanish Press Agency): Madame Minister, with regard to President Sarkozy’s proposal on a Union for the Mediterranean, what are Greece’s expectations in this field – how does it want to participate and what role does it want to play practically?
Ms. Bakoyannis: Greece, along with other Mediterranean countries, has welcomed President Sarkozy’s proposal. We, in the Greek Foreign Ministry, have worked very hard, together with the French side and other partners, together with all our Arab partners, and I have carried out visits over the past few months so that we could have specific initiatives and specific actions to strengthen cooperation between Mediterranean countries and any other countries that wish to take part in this effort.
The interest in the Union for the Mediterranean essentially lies in the fact that we focus all our efforts on particular projects; projects through which we can achieve cooperation between North and South, and I believe they will be to everyone’s benefit. The first issue, which of course requires closer cooperation between all partners, concerns illegal immigration.
Mr. Hadoulis: (off microphone)... I was wondering whether you could give us a bit more information on the issue of the appeal regarding the “Turkish” associations. Such as, for instance, which decisions Greece disagrees with and whether it intends to appeal these decisions.
Ms. Bakoyannis: Allow me to ask you to wait until an announcement is made.
Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: We will finish up in two minutes.
Mr. Barakat: Regarding the situation in the Middle East and Greece’s position after all that is happening in the Middle East.
Ms. Bakoyannis: On the issue of Lebanon, as you know, the latest development allow for optimism that a more stable solution can be found on the problem of Lebanon.
Greece will take part in the Vienna conference, which will focus on the problem of Palestinian refugees within Lebanon, in order to support them financially, following the recent misadventures.
It is certain that the instability in the Middle East is cause for great concern, as you know, for all the countries of the European Union. There will be a very important conference in Berlin, where security issues will be discussed.
Greece is present – as you know— in all the discussions on the Middle East, hoping that the side that is seriously and responsibly seeking to bring peace to the region will prevail.
Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: One final question. Mr. Michail.
Mr. Mihail: Ms. Bakoyannis, since you digressed, allow me to ask a question on a different issue. Whether you believe that the current crisis within PASOK, due to the expulsion of Mr. Simitis from the party, benefits our country’s international prestige and our country’s profile abroad, given that Mr. Simitis is a particularly respected figure, at least in the European Union.
Ms. Bakoyannis: No major party, Mr Mihail, and no party in power can rejoice at crises happening within another party. It would be an incorrect and short-sighted approach. We hope that PASOK will be able to find its stride.
Mr. Malinov: From the Russian Press Agency. Greece signed an agreement in Moscow on the construction of the Greek section of the South Stream gas pipeline. How does Greece see its role in the region, with all these major oil and natural gas projects?
Ms. Bakoyannis: Greece believes it has a very important role to play in the field of energy. Thanks to this government’s decisions, our country has evolved into an energy hub.
There is, as you know, the agreement on the Burgas-Alexandroupoli oil pipeline, there is the agreement on the Turkish-Greek-Italian pipeline bringing natural gas from different sources in the region, from Turkey to Italy through Greece.
Of course, the agreement on the South Stream pipeline was signed, as you know, by Prime Minister Mr. Karamanlis and President Putin in Moscow.
I would like to add the particularly important role that Greece’s shipping can play in energy security. Greek shipping has now been equipped with modern ships for the transport of oil and either pressurized or liquefied natural gas.
All this makes Greece a significant actor. Let me add that we have signed natural gas agreements with Algeria and Egypt. We faithfully observe EU policy, in complete accordance with the Commission.